User talk:Augur ./Discussion with LinNah

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About this page

This is the page for discussing issues with the wiki, Lin Nah giving Augur background and explanations about the wiki (some of it guesswork) and any other items related to that wiki that will help Augur or needs discussing with Augur.

So much stuff isn't working here yet

I'm starting to think that much of the normal stuff I regularly do in other wikis is reliant on installed extensions. So much of what I've been trying here already, such as adding my box template, or altering the {{DISPLAYTITLE}} for my home page, doesn't seem to be working. I've already put in a request (via Lin Nah) for a list of common MediaWiki extensions to be installed here, to support some of the features I use regularly. Will have to wait and see if/when some of them get installed, whether the tricks I've been trying to use will suddenly start working. ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 18:06, 8 December 2014 (AEDT)

It is not just the extensions, but some of the back-end configuration is also not set up the way I'd normally expect a wiki to be set up. For instance, the $wgNamespacesWithSubpages option has not been enabled for the Template: namespace, meaning that the normal way of documenting templates using the {{/doc}} command is unavailable. InterWiki doesn't seem to have been enabled either. Also, my Preferences don't seem to have saved between sessions, so I've lost my custom signature between logins, along with my regional settings, etc. I'd really appreciate having access to the back-end of the wiki, to set some of this stuff up properly, if that's okay? Augur . (talk) 19:19, 8 December 2014 (AEDT)
just sent you an email. Suggest you check out previous LCA wikis to see how it is being used by the conference attendees. Lin Nah (talk) 19:45, 8 December 2014 (AEDT)
Thanks Lin, got that. Looks like the file uploads are working now. I'd still like to get some of those MW extensions installed from the list I gave you earlier. ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 13:33, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)
I'm stalled again. Much of what I want to accomplish at the moment relies heavily on ParserFunctions, such as the ever-handy {{#if:}} conditional statement. Any chance that could be the first MW extension from my wishlist to be installed, please? ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 14:43, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)
I didn't ask for the parser function to be installed because I wanted to see what else you want installed (see below) and check them out. Also didn't think my upload problem would be resolved so quickly.Lin Nah (talk) 16:32, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)
As I mentioned above, my Preferences don't seem to have saved between sessions, so I've (again) lost my custom signature between logins, along with my regional settings, etc. Could this be fixed, by any chance? It could become annoying to wiki users who spend time customising their preferences, only to lose them the next time they log in. Augur . (talk) 13:19, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)
It's worse than I first realized. The watchlists are also getting deleted each time the user logs out. I'm assuming that this has something to do with the way the ExtAuthDB extension has been configured. Augur . (talk) 01:46, 14 December 2014 (AEDT)

Media Wiki extensions

Can you list the extensions you want installed or is the ParserFunctions the only extension? It just saves time if we have a list. Before they are installed, someone needs to ensure the stuff on the list will not result in unintended consequences if used is allowed. Lin Nah (talk) 16:32, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)

I thought you might ask. I've just created such a list here. ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 16:39, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)

Things to look for

One thing to watch out for is people creating a duplicate page due to wrong spelling/case. eg front page has Partners Programme and Partners programme both listed.

Or the Attractions page is just a list of links. Lin Nah (talk) 16:32, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)

Yeah, got that. To help me fix such issues, it would be really handy if I had some superuser tools, such as the ability to move pages. Thanks. ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 16:42, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)

Explaining the lca2015 and other lca wikis

Looking at your mediawiki extension shopping/wish list, I think some stuff should have been explained sooner and I was going to do this way back when I was looking for someone to help with the wiki.

  • User accounts
    • Users can't create an account to edit in the wiki.
    • The only users who can edit the wiki are users who have signed up on the lca2015 website and that account is used for signing up in this wiki. That is why you couldn't create an account in this wiki when you first tried a few weeks ago, shortly after my email asking for help on wiki.
    • All users who edit the wiki have agreed to the lca2015 code of conduct and the terms & conditions.
    • This means your extensions for vandals, and the next list below it isn't needed.
  • Use of wiki
    • The wiki will start to be used more and more the closer we get to the conference. I haven't kept track of how the previous wikis have grown or looked at how often they are used.
    • After the conference there may be an edit or two to add links to stuff. For example if someone offered to find out about x, they may put the link to the info there etc.
    • Presenters may also edit it to add links to where the slides are for talks or where the talk videos are.
    • Attendees sometimes add links to their photos.
    • The amount of edits and even views on the wiki drops off after conference week.
  • If you need to link to lca2015 website, please always use the url with This means when the wiki is archived, along with website, links to the lca2015 website should still work.

Sorry will have to go now. will add more later

Lin Nah (talk) 19:06, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)

Wow, a wiki without the threat of vandals! That will certainly make my life simpler. Thanks for explaining that Lin. Much of my former experience with wiki work has been in defeating spam, carefully patrolling user edits, and defeating spam, with a little bit of templating and categorizing thrown in for good measure, and defeating more spam. I'm looking forward to this spam-free environment. ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 19:20, 9 December 2014 (AEDT)
  • Media like Video on lca wikis
    • No videos or sound files are uploaded to the wiki
    • There will be links to videos + sound files so people know where they are. These are videos of talks or other videos.
    • Videos are uploaded somewhere like youtube (or vimeo).
    • The links to those videos are wiki'd so people know where they are. Also aren't always able to put the links on the conference website because the people who are able to update the lca conference site are usually too busy during the conference.
    • Also won't be unusal if there's a server on campus with the video files so people who wish to down the vids before they head home may do so.
    • There is also a final repository for all the vids.
    • I don't think it is wise to have people run videos off the wiki. using youtube for videos means they use another network's infrastructure to cope with space + network.
  • Uses of wiki at
    • Wiki to help organise events, both official + unofficial.
      • If a miniconf or tutorial needs a webpage, they are advised to use the wiki. If they don't wish to use the wiki, there'll be a link from the wiki to the actual miniconf/tutorial webpage. See the current miniconfs page as example. The Open Radio and Astronomy miniconfs are using the wiki for their page. The Sysadmin miniconf and open hardware miniconf have their own page.
      • BOFs - Birds of a feather sessions are organised via wiki. This could be BOFs that happen at the scheduled time + place for BOFs or at other times. There's also activity like Yoga, martial arts, running that have BOFs.
      • organising social events with other lca attendees. eg lca2014 had an outing to an Indian Ocean swim. There was a whiskey BOF that may or may not have been wiki'd at lca2011 (can't remember). Looks like there's a plan Auckland - Wellington rail trip.
      • unPDNS - This is for people who are not going to the Penguin dinner. There's other evenings too and people organise something for that.
      • As you see, the Partner's programme has a page in the wiki.
    • Wiki as repository of information useful to conference attendees
      • This is already happening but may need some help with. I am not sure if anyone is coordinating the stuff. Thing like what mobile networks we have, what sort of plugs + votage for electricity, where to go for emergency info.
      • where to eat, drink, play while they are at the conference. Much of this is by conference attendees.
      • what logos of badge mean
      • Swag - usually one of the attendees lists out the swag they receive + others add to it. some even take a pic + link to pic. This is mostly done by attendees.

    • Wiki as source of link to info useful to conference attendees.
      • links to video, slides, github repos for talks or even for stuff someone is talking about at a BOF or think someon at the conference may find useful.
      • Attendees sometimes add a link to where their lca photo album is.

Lin Nah (talk) 22:28, 10 December 2014 (AEDT)

Thanks Lin, that's all useful information and I'll bear it in mind as I work on the wiki. I'm wanting to help coordinate / curate the repository of information that is on the wiki, including gathering links to resources such as bus timetables, mobile network info, local eateries around the venue, etc. That is a big part of the attraction for me in helping out with the LCA wiki. It is an opportunity for me to put my Aspie tendencies to good use! ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 04:31, 11 December 2014 (AEDT)
I have the info to add just not the time. So when I get back to Auckland will send you the links to add etc. Sorry for the delay. Lin Nah (talk)

Image Map extension

I think this is a good idea, especially for the venue map. However if it is actual maps, I'd like to see the use of google Maps or Open Street Maps. It won't be unusual to find that once we start putting in info, we will end up one of the attendees creating an open Street map for the conference.

Lin Nah (talk) 07:00, 12 December 2014 (AEDT)

I was talking to a regular OSM contributor last night at the Tangleball Open Day, and showed him my Content Resources - Map Links page here on this wiki. He told me that the Google Maps dataset is more complete than OSM is currently for commercial property identification tags. I agree that if there are contributions made to OSM during the conf to places of interest to us, it would be great to link to it instead. Personally I'd prefer to use OSM exclusively, but it isn't viable just yet. I do hope there will be an OSM BoF, because I'm keen to learn more about this too. Augur . (talk) 13:30, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)

What is needed

  • Are there more links we need to add to the left margin? All I've asked for is a link back to the lca2015 website. One or two of the earlier wikis added links to programme items that are on the wiki like Miniconf, BOFs, Tutorials page. Should we add a link to the Special:AllPages page?
  • If you use template pages, would a user who wishes to opt out of using your template be able to do so easily?
  • What template pages are you planning to have?
  • What will the front page look like?

Lin Nah (talk) 07:00, 12 December 2014 (AEDT)

  • I'm expecting to be able to provide a comprehensive navigation package for the wiki, to make all pages readily available without the need for any extra links on the sidebar. I generally put my own custom editing links on the sidebar using ModifySidebar.js in my own userspace, but I see that is not enabled on this wiki either. I guess user-side scripts are not normally a feature of LCA wiki's?
  • The userspace templates I've been implementing are purely opt-in, rather than opt-out. They aren't in any way obligatory, or even necessary. They're more for the fun of it. The navigation templates that I'm using for the main namespace are a more serious consideration, as they are there for the benefit of the users of the wiki. If someone creates a page, such as for a BoF, but doesn't add the navigation template, I'll probably come along later myself and add it to the page. If editor's don't want the nav templates added to their pages, they could leave a comment at the top of the page, like a no-bots type notice in HTML <!-- comments --> tags.
    • We should probably standardise the comment message, so that if we do end up running a pywikipediabot to add the nav templates, it can automatically identify and ignore pages tagged as such.
  • The main navigation templates I'm thinking of are a breadcrumb trail as they used on the LCA2009 wiki, along with a navbar footer, and comprehensive use of a "see also" hatnote, or even just the "see also" section on a page. Do you think that should be enough for aiding navigation of the wiki? Too much?
  • As for the front page, that really depends on how soon we can get the Tabber extension installed. If that gets installed soon, then I can make up something that looks a bit like my BotWiki front page, which I got the idea for from the MediaWikiTesters wiki on Orain. If not, then I guess it will look a lot like the previous wikis', but with the aforementioned breadcrumb trail and navbar footer.
I hope that answers your questions sufficiently. Feel free to lob anything else at me as you think of it. I'm really ramping up my LCA2015 wiki involvement now, and putting a lot of effort into it. So treat me like a ship under full steam, needing a nudge every now and then to keep me on course! ᏜᏠᎶᏠᏑ 13:58, 12 December 2014 (AEDT)

Why label users?

Just spotted diagram you have on twitter in relation to lca2015. Why are you trying to label or categorise wiki users? I don't think it is necessary. Most users (if you noticed in past wikis) don't even bother to populate their userpage. When they do it is to leave info like twitter handle and/or IRC name. some may also include contact (email or mobile). That is up to them. Usually you'll find the user + talk pages are red. I think mine was once not red because I put a . there. Lin Nah (talk) 07:02, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)

"Why are you trying to label or categorise wiki users?"
Sorry, I think that's being a bit emotive and melodramatic. I'm not trying to label anybody. I'm providing the option if people want to label themselves, so as to be able to be found by like-minded people easier on the wiki. I wouldn't have thought even this would be point of contention. As I explained on Twitter, and in the relevant pages I've created so far here on the wiki, these are optional and self-selected labels. I'm just starting out by populating some suggestions. Being a wiki, others can add their own labels / tags if they want to, or they can just ignore the whole thing altogether, as you suggest above. Think of this as being like the userboxen on Wikipedia. Some people love them and use them extensively. Some people hate them and won't go near them. That is the meaning of optional and self-selected. Augur . (talk) 13:15, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)
"Most users (if you noticed in past wikis) don't even bother to populate their userpage."
As organizers of the current LCA, we're charged with leaving things in a better shape for future LCA's than we found them in. I'm hoping that my templates for self-selection of personal characteristics, past LCA experience badges, social media networks, etc., will catch on and that delegates will want to make use of them to populate their own userspace profile pages. By using both templates and categories together like this, I hope that future LCA organizers can make use of such opt-in data that is exposed through the use of them. Sure, the datasets created like this won't be complete or extensive, but they are in keeping with the opt-in ethic that many privacy-aware delegates would appreciate: only giving away information about themselves that they feel comfortable with. Augur . (talk) 15:25, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)
My guess is if people are to use userboxen it is more likely they put in what is their favourite shell, editor(s), linux variant, programming language(s). Where lca is concerned, there's probably people who will even specify which level they are in each of those. Yes also past lca conference badges would probably be well received. Lin Nah (talk) 23:21, 18 December 2014 (AEDT)

About my messages

HI Augur, I tend to write things briefly. More so if this is on twitter. So please don't take it as my being negative or angry or short with you. Just the way I write. While many of my coments on this seems negative, it is merely badly worded. I was basically to explain how the lca wiki works and what it is used for. It also lead to informing you why some of the extensions in your wish list isn't needed. There was no way you would have known that no videos were uploaded to the server this wiki is on. I didn't even think about this till I started explaining it to you. I just knew we linked to videos and not uploaded videos. I hope that this isn't demotivating you as I treasure your enthusiasm to help with the wiki and am annoyed with myself that I am not at home now sending you the links I think you will need. If you are going to the volunteers meeting today, I hope all goes well for you. If you feel overwhelmed, just take a walk outside or go admire the china cabinet or aeriel view photo etc. Lin Nah (talk) 07:02, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)

Hi Lin, I understand the need for brevity. Unlike me, you're a very busy person. I must apologise too, from my perspective. Being that I don't have as much to do as yourself and others here (eg Cherie and Steve), I tend to get somewhat long-winded and can post novellas on wiki talk pages, which people such as yourself may not always have the time to read in full. So, being less busy can be just as awkward for communication as being busy can.
About the "video's on the wiki" thing, I wasn't going to say anything more about it, and just leave it at that, but as it has come up again a couple of times since, I think I should explain further. The EmbedVideo extension that I had linked to in my original wishlist is, as the name suggests, about embedding videos on wiki pages. It isn't about uploading videos to the wiki server at all. Did you upload videos to Twitter for Kiwicon? Unlikely, if anything you may have tweeted a link to a video hosted on YouTube. Twitter automatically puts your video link into a player to allow easy viewing from their site, so that you don't have to leave their site to view it. The same applies with the EmbedVideo extension. It is simply a way to link to a video on another site, such as YouTube for instance, but provides a player so that the video appears to be on the wiki, and user's don't need to leave our wiki to view it. I hope that explains things further. I understand that you don't have time yourself to review all the extensions, that's why I published the links on the extension wishlist, so that others can review and comment on them. But please don't dismiss my suggestions like this again, off-the-cuff, without either reviewing them yourself or having someone else review them. Augur . (talk) 13:06, 13 December 2014 (AEDT)

Permission to use Files, images + content

  • Pl ensure that you have permission to use the files + images you upload/use. They should have the suitable copyright. If it is copyrighted but we're given permission to use, ensure you get the permission by email. I'd prefer if the files are GPL, Open source, or one of the CC - preferably CC by SA.
  • Content should be either in your own words or stuff you are allowed to use. eg stuff sent to you about miniconf talks abstract + bio is ok. However if you have read an article somewhere and liked the content, copying it as content of wiki isn't ok. Sorry if it sounds like common sense. I can't find a good analogy to use at this hour
  • Similar with code and anything else you use.
  • If it is something copyrighted but you are premited to use it, pl ensure you have this permission by email and not just verbal. Depends on what the permission is, I can tell you who to send it to.

Lin Nah (talk) 00:09, 19 December 2014 (AEDT)

Lin Nah (talk) 00:09, 19 December 2014 (AEDT)